Westboror Church Needs to burn! - Page 2 - The New Order

Naked Crook · 12-18-2012

I wouldn't go so far as to blame organized religion or the idea of it. We have to remember, that these are people holding up these signs, and it is their views. Not every organized religion goes around spreading hate speech. Hiding behind the guise of an "organized religion" is simply a means to an end.

Atheist organizations can be just as morally reprehensible as religious ones, but that does not mean that all secular groups are bad, very much in the same way that not all religious groups are bad. We have to avoid blaming groups, and assign blame to individuals.

In the case of the WBC, what we have is very crafty and manipulative people who pick their battles. If you think these people are dumb, guess again. They go from state to state, and push their protesting as far as the state law will allow them to. They claim things like "God hates Fags" and "God loves IED", etc etc etc. What they are doing meets the definition of hate speech in every way, and everyone will agree that it is hate speech, that it is all hateful, that it is evil, that it is morally repugnant, but the loophole that they have is that it is not THEM saying these things.

The entire reason they are still around, is because they are "quoting" God. They are not the ones making this speech, but rather, God is the one saying this stuff, and they are simply the messengers. That is pretty fucked, don't ya think?

So guys, lets try to keep a few things in mind:

Let's not blame religion, or blame God because the things are used as means to an end
Let's not blame state laws or the constitution for not being more precise with the wording
Let's not blame the Government for not cracking down on this loophole
Let's not assign blame anywhere

What we have to do, is ignore these people. Preachers preach, because listeners listen. These people, eventually, when they realize that their message is going unheard, they will either stop, and go quietly into the night, or escalate to the point where we can finally put these people behind bars, celled up with some 6'9" pipe hitting brotha named Jamal.

lynksys · 12-19-2012

It certainly brings up the question though. How would they feel if their church got massacred? Would they spew the same hate speech upon themselves, claiming the massacre happened because "God hates fags"? In a sense, they would have to hate themselves and what they stood up for in the past. Creates a sort of paradox.

But yes, the 1st amendment covers their rights to their religion and their freedom of speech to a certain extent. There are 3 areas which the 1st amendment do not protect, and that is obscene material, excessively pornographic material, and threatening material.

I remember reading a while back that some people wanted to censor parts of the Bible because of its anti-homosexuality basis. Why hasn't it been censored? Because its not obscene, and it isn't threatening in nature given the context. Sure, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, an abomination before God's eyes and that those who practice it should be stoned, but it's not actively rallying up hate and bring people to riot.

With WBC, however, their rallies can hardly be seen as "peaceful" and "non-threatening". They are actively gathering together to hate a group and cause a disruption of the peace, which is against the law. That is when their 1st amendment rights end. Not only that, they are also trying to disband another group which has gathered for peaceful purposes, such as an outdoor funeral, which in turn violates the 1st amendment rights of the peaceful group.

Nothing can be viewed in a simple manner. There are always several layers to it.

Naked Crook · 12-19-2012

Lynksys, that was defiantly one of the most insightful posts I have ever read. You are absolutely right about that. On the best day of my life, I could not of said that better myself. Bravo.

Kairu · 12-19-2012

But none of the WBC's protests have been violent? Not that I've heard. Yes their moral compass is way out of whack and no I don't think they're a good group/cult, but as they are quoting thier interpretation of the "Christian" (and I say that with quotes because I wouldn't call them Christians) Bible. Therefore it has been what shielded them from legal prosecution. I remember when they came to town after Virginia Tech's shooting. There was a counter peaceful protest. As much as everyone local wanted to be violent, everyone knew they'd be the offender would be the ones arrested for committing a violent hate crime. As for peaceful, it really depends on which definition you want. How I see it is that you can have peaceful mean non-violent, which is how I'm using it, or have it mean completely docile which seems to be how everyone else wants to use it.